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| "it's me playing a solo show (backed by Ian Evans of the awesome UK noise-pop band Horowitz on chair) in the merch tent at the IndieTracks festival in Derbyshire, UK...from late July of this year" |
Brad would challenge my attempts at deep status updates and suddenly we'd have one of those long comment threads that aggravates anyone who simply "liked" the status in passing and tried to continue on their merry way. Brad's comments were always decidedly thoughtful and unusually articulate, so when I posted the first duologue link and he was the first to volunteer -- not just to chat with me, but to "antagonize" me, OBViously I had to take him up on the offer.
me: so - you'd be happy to antagonize me, eh?
Brad: oh, hey -- one sec!
me: no problem!
Brad: sorry -- designing gig flyers. be back in 45 seconds.
me: take your time
Brad: ok.
me: okay you'll take your time or okay you're ready?
Brad: hmmmm
ok. ready! i don't mean antagonize in a bad way, necessarily.
me: ah - the good kind of antagonizing?
Brad: well...i just mean it's good to ask questions and engage in discussions. it seems like people aren't used to reconciling opposing viewpoints: it's all black or right, right or wrong...the art of the debate/discussion has sorta withered in the face of political correctness, i suppose.
but what's that got to do with rock'n'roll?
me: (sorry, back)
isn't rock'n'roll supposed to be subversive
?
Brad: well, i suppose your walking the line between rock'n'roll and pop music. before rock and pop were synonymous, it was VERY subversive. people thought it would bring about the death of society as they knew it. now there is plenty of rock'n'roll that extols the status quo quite openly.
(you're)
me: and what about pop?
Brad: pop is music for everyone, right? anything can be pop.
pop/rock is sort of an oxymoron, isn't it? it's a contradiction, and the friction between the two can be really interesting...or really boring.
me: pop is music for everyone, as in, pop = popular = status quo?
that seems different from saying pop can be anything.
Brad: not necessarily. to me, it's music that is relateable, not necessarily popular. but you know, you can attach labels to anything, and endlessly pick at them and undermine them. who am i, derida?
me: i hope not... otherwise, i could be in serious trouble here.
Brad: don't worry.
me: i think relateable is a good distinction, though.
Brad: that's a key word/idea.
me: i've been listening to your full length today. i dig it!
this lyric popped out at me:
Brad: wow, thanks.
(i was being sincere!)
me: (funny how periods have come to indicate sarcasm to some.)
"i insist on not insisting on anything. i insist on not resisting what is happening, it's just happening"
did you write that ["flounder"] lyric??
Brad: i did write that lyric.
all though replace "on" with "I'm" -- I insist I'm not insisting on...same idea, though.
me: ah - thanks
Brad: i insist i'm not resisting...
of course, by insisting that you're not, you're insisting that you are.
me: ohhhhh that's quite different.
that sounds more like you (though it should be said i've never even met you)
Brad: well, it's a song about being trapped in a corner: physically, romantically, socially, whatever. all of a sudden i'm insisting that it's not my fault that i'm here.
which means that it is.
me: because you're saying it's not.
Brad: right :)
me: yeah.
Brad: that's a really old song.
me: when did you start writing songs?
Brad: i started WANTING to write songs in middle school. i wrote a few bad songs in high school. i wrote a lot more bad songs starting in college.
me: do you remember your first song?
Brad: hmmm...i remember bits. the first song, beginning to end, finished song escapes me.
for me, i write constantly, and rarely is anything finished.
that's the way it's always been.
and sometimes the song changes even if you don't change the music or lyrics.
me: what does it take for a song to make it to a finished state? is there some criteria?
Brad: well, if you're a songwriter AND a performer, it changes every time you play it. it means different things to you as time passes. but strictly as a writer, i have a hard time saying when a song is finished. i rely on my bandmates for that, or just when it seems to develop a beginning, a middle, and an end. it has an arc.
i toss as many finished songs in the dustheap as i do scraps of songs...i recently compiled an album of outtakes/demos, and it had 22 tracks on it, i think.
me: bandmates are good for that kind of thing.
can you describe your band dynamic in a word or two?
Brad: my bandmates are wonderful. i'm very lucky.
hmmm
it's basically the democracy that every other band says they are, but aren't.
me: ha ha - so why should we believe you? :)
(i laughed when one of my bandmates described us as an "enlightened democracy." ...only if enlightened means you know whom to defer to... and when.)
(though it's not always the same person.)
Brad: good point -- this is just my perspective. my bandmates may think it's something else entirely. but i think the recordings bare it out: on there record there are four lead singers represented. four songwriters represented. we didn't bother to list instrument credits, because everyone plays everything. who is singing isn't necessarily the person whose written the song.
oh, and yeah, a band is a shifting democracy -- or at least we are. if we know something is important to one of us, we're gonna let that person steer the ship for a while.
me: shifting democracy. i like that.
Brad: i almost said fluid democracy, but the word fluid is kinda gross.
me: i know someone who can't say the word "moist."
Brad: then you know me.
because i can't.
me: words are powerful for you?
Brad: yeah -- powerful because they mean different things to different people at different times. powerful because they are fun to jumble up and see what you can evoke. "powerful" seems to imply that it's very serous, which isn't necessarily the case.
me: do you have a favorite word?
Brad: hmmm...i'm going to ask for yours in a minute. there are words i go through affairs with and use often. "decidedly" is a good one right now. i like the idea that you could do actions in an undecided manner, thus necessitating the need to describe something as "decidedly."
i mean, either you did it or you didn't! i insist i'm not insisting.
me: so acting undecidedly would be dishonest...
or, really, in bad faith
Brad: or timidly...or acting because you think you should act, but you don't know for sure.
yes...that old existentialist bugaboo.
i have read "she came to stay," but it's been years.
me: well "dishonest" wasn't quite right.
Brad: you're dishonest to yourself, perhaps.
me: because there's so much we lie to ourselves about
all the time
Brad: bingo.
me: mine's "juice."
Brad: that's a good one, too. i'm not sure i could ever use it in a song!
me: i have yet to do so, but maybe i'll take that as a challenge...
in my mind it's a book title
Brad: ha! i'm trying to think of a great song that uses it, and coming up blank.
me: perfect.
oh - did you buy any records this morning?
Brad: a few. not much interesting stuff came out.
i bought conan o'brien's new single.
me: wait, what?
(i'm so out of touch.)
Brad: jack white has a label called Third Man Records, and they have started this series of spoken word seven-inches. the first was by BP Fallon, who worked behind the scenes for big rock bands in the seventies. it was a devastating reflection on the idea and peril of fame. the second release is conan o'brien. haven't listened to it yet.
me: i'll be interested to hear what you think of it.
thanks!
Brad: i'm looking forward to. it's supposedly conan improvising his own take on the Frankenstein legend.
(i'm hardly in touch, by the way. i just like what i like!)
me: do you have a day job?
Brad: i have several.
me: care to share any of them?
Brad: ...they are all intertwined, i suppose. i deal rare records and CDs on Amazon and eBay. i scour thrift shops and record stores and find out-of-print things, then sell them. that plus my freelance writing work does ok. it allows my record label to continue to hemmorage money.
hemorrhage.
me: you're a hustler! awesome.
Brad: i prefer entrepreneur.
and i have a cover band that gets paid, which is nice.
me: i meant hustle in a good way. it's a skill i haven't honed, much. yet.
Brad: hee hee...it's not first nature to me, but it's been fun giving it a go. i used to work for record labels, and that business is essentially dying. this feels more honest.
you hustle endlessly, though!
me: me personally?
Brad: whenever you have a gig! you work very hard.
filling a room isn't easy.
me: i do. i'm getting a lot of practice at it. :)
Brad: that's a hustle.
but how long has TBH been a going concern?
me: a concern?
Brad: noun
a matter that engages a person's attention, interest, or care, or that affects a person's welfare or happiness: The party was no concern of his.
a matter that engages a person's attention, interest, or care, or that affects a person's welfare or happiness: The party was no concern of his.
a commercial or manufacturing company or establishment: the headquarters of an insurance concern.
me: ha
3 years-ish
me: though i didn't start hustling till this past year or so.
Brad: gotcha. i guess that's about the same as OHI, which started in spring of '07, but didn't really kick into gear until early 2008.
me: we did a lot of wandering in the desert at first, figuring out what was and was not our sound. and also of course figuring out how to work together. once that seemed to gel, i had the epiphany that we needed to figure out how to get the music out into the world. ha.
okay back to you.
what might your career be in a parallel universe?
Brad: it's a path we all walk -- sounds familiar. we initially started not wanting to play out at all: just practice. that slowly changed.
me: wait - not play out at all?
what about recording?
Brad: i like this universe just fine...i took a career aptitude test that said i had the manual dexterity of surgeon. but i don't like blood. so probably something in engineering.
we'd record, but not do shows...but then we fell in with the indiepop world, which is the best scene ever, and we couldn't resist.
me: i like this universe, too. good ol' 'verse.
want to answer the time machine question?
well, time machine/spaceship.
(i'm going to pick your brain about the indiepop world later)
Brad: ok...although i'll admit a prevailing attachment to this time/place.
me: hmm.
so, well. i guess that's really the first question: would you go at all?
Brad: if i could visit and return, without consequence, i may just...
me: without consequence!
;)
on the present, you mean?
Brad: right...i don't want to get into a whole back to the future/hot tub time machine situation, where i cough on a girl in the old west and then go back and robot spiders rule the planet.
me: fair enough. okay, so when/where would you go?
Brad: oh...i'd love to figure out the whole kennedy assassination. so i wouldn't mind being up on the top floor to see if oswald really did it.
me: fascinating... we keep kind of coming up to this idea of... what is it? unresolved conflicts? you seem drawn to certain kinds of juxtapositions.
undecided action
rock/pop
insist i'm not insisting
Brad: i suppose! another big parallel with our discussion and the kennedy situation is that his assassination was really one of the first big dominos to fall that changed the way subsequent generations felt about government. our parents' generation had kennedy, vietnam, and watergate -- all situations where the government overtly lied, and thus they don't have the sweet unflappable patriotism of our grandparents...
and to our grandparents, pop music was the hit parade and nothing more. the dawn of mass media, before it got so big that it fractured.
now pop music is brad paisley and the smiths and slipknot and mylie cyrus and one happy island and a lot of other things.
nothing is one thing anymore, damnit!
me: white and black. pop and rock. u.s. and commies.
i'm interested in the darker stuff that went down in the 50's.
Brad: hit or failure. none of this "cult success" stuff.
me: mccarthy... the price of optimism?
i dunno.
Brad: that's some us-versus-them-no-grey-area stuff! worth watching "point of order" again...
julius and ethel rosenberg...etc.
me: yeah.
Brad: we could talk about that all day...although hindsight has shown the Rosenbergs to be guilty, which is so fascinating...
me: that's what i was going to say before, when i was listing things... there's something about responsibility/culpability in all of this, too.
what's so interesting about that?
to you
Brad: right...if you are guilty of doing something illegal, is it still persecution?
it changed the rosenbergs from martyrs to fugitives...it's just very distorting!
me: all this talk of gray area... what do you know for sure?
Brad: my dog rocco loves me!
me: dogs are so certain, aren't they.
Brad: i don't doubt that.
me: there's a passage from (sorry) the unbearable lightness of being about how only dogs are capable of unconditional love.
somehow that's one of the passages from that book that has stayed with me.
Brad: which i find devastating...do any of us deserve unconditional love? let that go unanswered.
me: deserve is an interesting concept when it comes to human beings. i think it has to go unanswered.
what do you believe in?
Brad: oh, i don't know...i think you should, in the end, be nice to people. i am capable of extreme pettiness, that i constantly try to rise above. back to conan o'brien, who said on his last night of the tonight show, "if you work hard and be kind, amazing things will happen."
i believe in hard work.
me: what's one thing you don't know but wish you did? (besides who killed kennedy...)
Brad: paradoxically, my career is in the arts, in which success is entirely NOT based on hard work.
me: wait, really?
oh, success...
hm.
yeah that's probably true.
Brad: right...you can work really hard, and still fail. you can be really good and still not get what you deserve. like the Kevin Dunn thing.
me: ?
Brad: Kevin's a brilliant guitarist/songwriter/producer from my hometown, Atlanta. He helped pave the way for the southern new wave scene that launched REM, B-52s, etc...he co-produced the first B-52s and Pylon records and made brilliant solo records. But he didn't get famous or reap financial gain.
I've been working with Kevin for over a year now, and it's been really fun.
His music was perhaps too ingenious for its era.
me: oh! do you want to plug your show?
(before i veer us off the music course again)
Brad: ha! that's just a fringe benefit, but yeah, he's playing his first boston gig in 30 years at the lily pad on september 17, and we're playing with him, with our buddies Cotton Candy. i co-produced and released an anthology of Kevin's work that is getting some nice attention from places like pitchfork, Mother Jones, Village Voice, etc...
me: i can see why you're attached to the present.
well done!
Brad: labor of love.
me: i'm going to antagonize that present-love with these next two questions....
is anything missing from your life?
Brad: not really. i could stand to make a little more money, but each year i do a little better, so i think that will start to correct itself.
me: great!
Brad: a litttle more room for records, maybe.
me: ha :) i need more room for books. they're taking over my life.
if you could remove one thing from existence, what would it be?
Brad: war jumps to the top of the list pretty quickly, but i may put intolerance above that, as it leads to war.
me: what makes you happy?
Brad: music and friends nearly equally. and animals.
me: what pisses you off?
Brad: sadly, a great deal! sloth and intolerance, both of which i'm very capable of!
me: what freaks you out?
Brad: being in unfamiliar locations. i'm a lot of fun on tour.
me: ha! my grandfather is like that. anxious, anxious, anxious. but he's a storyteller, so after vacations end, he tells the whole thing like he had the time of his life.
what cracks you up?
Brad: i understand that perspective. i like futurama and 30 rock, which i realize is mostly dumb humor in very smart trappings.
me: well said.
this is usually my first question, but we dove right into the deeper stuff, so i'll make it my (almost) last: who are you?
Brad: i'm brad. i play instruments, write songs and words...sometimes for money, but usually not.
me: that would make a great business card.
Brad: my business card just has my name on it.
me: no contact info?
Brad: well yeah, but it doesn't say what i do.
me: so long as people can call and ask you... :)
Brad: i don't turn down a lot of jobs.
me: okay, i'm hereby making this a signature end of the interview: you get to choose the last 2 questions: one you'd like to answer and one you'd like to ask me.
wow that's a lot of colons.
Brad: you wanted to know something about indiepop. i'd be curious about that.
me: so you want me to ask you about that?
Brad: yeah -- i'm curious to hear what you want to know.
me: well i'd like to have a whole other conversation with you about it for my own hustling purposes. but you said it's the best scene ever, and that it was a turning point for OHI in terms of deciding to play out.
i guess i'm wondering specifically what "scene" you mean - and how specifically has it informed the trajectory of the band?
Brad: ...well, the indiepop universe is basically a scene the size of the boston rock scene (a scene of which i'm relatively blissfully unaware of), but spread out across the globe. just sort of small, quirky bands with a lot of personality that don't play by the same rules. i'm thinking of bands like the smittens (vt), very truly yours (chicago), the lucksmiths (australia), the besties (RIP!, nyc), etc. it's a tight-knit little circle that is simultaneaously very accepting and supportive.
i was galvanized into starting my own band (at the time i was playing bass in the downbeat 5) by bands like the lucksmiths, cub, etc...but i didn't think anyone else was into that kinda stuff, or was still playing it. so when OHI stumbled into our first gig -- with the besties and lil' hospital at an empty matinee at great scott -- we realized that it wasn't all just slate-grey rock. soon we started discovering these little pockets of like-minded bands around the world.
...it's just been overwhelming. it's hilarious that we struggle to draw 50 people to a show in boston, but we've played to capacity crowds in london and glasgow. that's this scene.
me: nothing is one thing anymore.
Brad: right: it's local, in a global way.
me: which allows communities to be supportive, at least within themselves, in a way i don't think the old model really allowed for. the music industry isn't so capitalistic anymore.
we'll overturn society yet.
Brad: well...this is the brilliant thing: the music industry is basically dying. for whatever reason, the old models don't work any more. i think that soon music will be the pursuit of amateurs and hobbiests -- like metal-detecting or building model airplanes. when i think about it, the majority of music i listen to is made by my friends -- none of whom make their living from playing music.
the support we get from the indiepop world at large is a wonderful thing. there's always a place to crash and a gig to play.
me: model airplanes! a lot of people will shudder at that thought.
Brad: no one makes a living from it, but they sure love doing it. sound familiar?
me: it's true.
Brad: it's also a scene that thrives on nontraditional venues, which i love. what are your favorite venues to play in?
me: oh dear.
Brad: in exchange for your answer, you'll get two drink tickets.
me: exactly. or be banned.
well, of the types of places i've played, my favorites would be the places with good onstage sound and places that folks like to go. because hearing myself and having an audience to connect with ... that's kind of the point.
Brad: "...it takes time to properly sugarcoat an answer." -- lisa simpson
me: but i'm not sure i've played my favorite venue yet.
Brad: ok...so far, then...
me: hm. paradise, i suppose.
(i might have to censor that "i suppose.")
Brad: well, that's your right to! no one believes anything is spontaneous anymore!
well, i'm sure you appreciate all the rooms that take a chance on you.
me: absolutely.
no one has to.
for that matter, no one has to support art.
Brad: nope. we're entitled to nothing.
me: and probably don't deserve anything, either.
Brad: which reminds me -- i'm accepting donations. i lost my iPod and need a new one. without it, i can't listen to music and thus be inspired to write my next album. so please, help a guy out.
me: oh - i have an extra.
Brad: ha ha...i never use mine anyway...i'm just out for the donations.
me: nice.
Brad: those drugs aren't gonna buy themselves! well, maybe if i take enough drugs...
me: brilliant.
any more questions for me?
Brad: that was the big one. always curious about venues.
me: or was the venue one it?
we have a history.
i'm from there. my mom went into labor with me there [at the mill]. i had my first legal drink there....
and someday i will play there.
and then eat spaghetti.
Brad: here's hoping it weathers the ongoing recession.
i will say that a venue that feeds you has a distinct advantage over nicer venues that don't.
me: it weathered the smoking ban, but just barely. it was going to close, but the town protested.
so true.
Brad: playing at smoking venues is a drag...no pun intended.
me: well thanks for taking all this time to chat with me, brad. it's been a great way to spend my afternoon.
really, no pun intended?
Brad: agreed. i'm sure i'll run into you at some point. come to an indiepop show and feel the love. if you see someone at a boston rock social looking nervous, maladjusted, and like he'd rather be anywhere else, introduce yourself, because that would be me.
thank you!
me: oh i'm going to get you on a bill with us, one of these days. we'll get 50 people there, between us. ;)
Brad: if it's at Bloc 11, that would be huge.
me: it will be.
huge, i mean.
Brad: i love playing there.
me: back to flyer design?
Brad: and doing some ebay/amazon sales...and watching more documentaries about the kennedy assassination. and learning how to spell "assassination."
me: two asses.
(let's end the interview there.)
(it's kind of awesome.)
(two asses. the end.)
Brad: ok. deal.
thanks for listening to our record.
done.
me: thanks for making it!
you didn't have to do that either...
Brad: when we play together, you'll find out we sound nothing like that now!
me: very fluid of you.
whoops.
Brad: juicey
me: ewwwww
okay have a good afternoon.
Brad: you too! later!
me: ciao
two asses. the end.
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